It is currently Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:25 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 112 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Classical Bonsai Award at 1st National Bonsai Exhibition
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:14 pm 
Offline
Editor

Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:44 am
Posts: 269
Location: Huntersville, NC USA
Mike Page wrote:
Will Heath wrote:
John,


Of all the emails I have received about the exhibit, this single bonsai is talked of the most. At the moment, it is the most famous bonsai in America.

Man, I love bonsai...


Will


Or maybe the most INFAMOUS!!


Mike


Either way, it will be remembered.
Congrats Mike!

John


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Classical Bonsai Award at 1st National Bonsai Exhibition
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:41 pm
Posts: 34
Location: Ottawa, KS
Peter,
Thank you for your article explaining the choice of this tree. It made me stop and reexamine some dearly held beliefs based on my limited exposure to bonsai. Through the ongoing discussion, some of those things were laid out in greater detail and I feel that I have gained immeasurably from the discussion.

I'm not sure how heated the discussions have been about this tree, as I haven't seen any of them. I do know that when the announcement was made, I didn't understand it. But my lack of understanding never made me want to argue about it, it only made me wonder what definition of "classical bonsai" the judges were using. Now I have a clearer understanding (I hope!) of that idea.

I admit I didn't pay a lot of attention to Mike's tree, mostly because I had seen it on the internet and generally dismissed it as being to "Mike Page-y" for my taste. It's a shame what we miss in this life while looking for something else.

In all, I would have to say that attending this exhibition gave a good shake to my fundamental relationship to bonsai and what it means. I'm still processing a good deal of this, but I want to say here that I fully intend on being there in 2010.

Chris Johnston


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Classical Bonsai Award at 1st National Bonsai Exhibition
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:14 pm
Posts: 4
Yes, this picture from Yoshimira's book makes sense and helps define what Mike was trying to achieve. Why was this category called "classical" and not literati or bunjin. I think much of the controversy would have been avoided had this category been properly named. The Yoshimira tree is nice, not a national winner, but at least it has some movement, some feeling, some history that moves me. The tree of Mike's lacked all of these. I stood in front of that tree for quite some time after it won this category. I was open to the possibility that I did not understand its "inner beauty" but no matter how long I stood and waited for some inspiration, the experience still remained empty. I realize that all contests have controversy but quite frankly, in my opinion, this tree was ugly. I love the bunjin style and, in fact, it is my favorite style but surely there are better examples that could have been exhibited. If this is the best bunjin the US has, give me a pretty, textbook tree anyday?

The exhibit was fabulous and seeing all of these great trees was inspirational. To have a National exhibit made me proud to be a part of our wonderful genre. However, I do have one gripe that I hope will be corrected at the next exhibit. I don't think its right that picture taking was not allowed. I would appreciate it if someone could give me the rational behind this restriction. I would have liked to revisit these fabulous specimens the next day and the next day and the next day and show them to my friends who weren't lucky enough to be physically present. Now I will have to wait until far in the future for this to happen. In the case of the ABS Saratoga Springs show, it was over a year and a half. If money was the issue, I would have been glad to pay a small fee for the right to take pictures and would have purchased the official book anyway. There is no way that my photographic skill would even be close to the professional pictures that will capture the trees. However if one of the objectives of the exhibit was learning then just a picture from one angle in a textbook is limiting. Wouldn't this objective be better achieved if I cold have used a close up lens and taken pictures of internal branching, ramifications and different angles? If it was an ergometric worry (that is aisle clogging), there could have been a time set aside for just shutterbugs to take there pictures.

My great thanks to Bill for the Herculean effort it must have taken to pull this off. It was well worth it.

Paul


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Classical Bonsai Award at 1st National Bonsai Exhibition
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:47 pm
Posts: 18
Location: Belgium
Paul Krasner wrote:
Yes, this picture from Yoshimira's book makes sense and helps define what Mike was trying to achieve. The Yoshimira tree is nice, not a national winner, but at least it has some movement, some feeling, some history that moves me. The tree of Mike's lacked all of these. I stood in front of that tree for quite some time after it won this category. I was open to the possibility that I did not understand its "inner beauty" but no matter how long I stood and waited for some inspiration, the experience still remained empty. I realize that all contests have controversy but quite frankly, in my opinion, this tree was ugly. I love the bunjin style and, in fact, it is my favorite style but surely there are better examples that could have been exhibited. If this is the best bunjin the US has, give me a pretty, textbook tree anyday?


I have to agree on this one. The Yoshimira tree isn't just nice, it's beautiful example of classical bunjin tree. It has a movement greater than Mike's tree and dramatic apex cascading downwards, with two different levels and negative spaces...I just love it. To mee, this is what classical bonsai is about, that's the way I see it. Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't want to be disrespectful and I'm happy for Mike, but I have to say what my heart and my fellings are telling me, about this tree... the way that this pine is shaped (the green part) is more like a mushroom or umbrella, all at the same hight.
Sorry for being honest.


Last edited by Marinko Beg on Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Classical Bonsai Award at 1st National Bonsai Exhibition
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:04 pm
Posts: 244
Location: South San Francisco, CA
Marinko Beg wrote:
"]


.
Sorry for being honest.[/quote]

Marinko
Never be sorry for being honest!

Mike


Last edited by Mike Page on Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Classical Bonsai Award at 1st National Bonsai Exhibition
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:18 pm
Posts: 56
Location: Upstate New York
This was an AWARD not a category. It was for the Bonsai that the judges felt best represented Classical Bonsai. It could have been an Informal Upright, Formal upright, Slanting Style, Semi Cascade, Cascade windswept or any variation than was in the Classical Style. It was not the best Literati Award.
There is always going to be differences in taste which is a good thing and is no surprise to me. What is disturbing is the depth of misunderstanding. Did you actually read Peter Warrens article? I heard someone state that they would like to hear what the judges said about the tree but it would not change their minds. That seems to be the mind set of some who insist that Mike pages Bonsai is not worthy because they do not like it. If you do not like the Tree thats fine, but please do not insist that the judges some how made a mistake.
I have seen many people walk past stunning Bonsai trees and look at them with no emotion, no reaction while others are "blown away" by what they see. If you stand in front of this or any Bonsai with the attitude of "whats so great about this tree" or "ok,so impress me" you will receive nothing.
Literati can be much like a Haiku capturing the essence of something with a few precious elements. This Bonsai does that for me. The fact that I or others would do something a little different with the arrangement of the top branch's is not an "ahh!". All over the exhibit you could hear people saying "if it were my tree..." and explaining to their friends how it would then be a Masterpiece.
Mr. Morimae said that this was an ego-less tree, now that is refreshing!

Mark


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Classical Bonsai Award at 1st National Bonsai Exhibition
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:36 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Norhtern New Jersey
Congratulation Mike.
A lot has been said, and asked but I have only one question to ask Mike/
Would you sell me the Tree? You know just to get it out of your collection so you will not have any more problems and they will all wonder where the little trouble maker is hiding !


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Classical Bonsai Award at 1st National Bonsai Exhibition
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:04 pm
Posts: 244
Location: South San Francisco, CA
Frank Cook wrote:
Congratulation Mike.
A lot has been said, and asked but I have only one question to ask Mike/
Would you sell me the Tree? You know just to get it out of your collection so you will not have any more problems and they will all wonder where the little trouble maker is hiding !


Frank, some of my soul lives in that tree. I cannot sell my soul.
I can only hope that my little tree lives on after I'm gone, and some of my soul stays with it.

Mike


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Classical Bonsai Award at 1st National Bonsai Exhibition
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:47 pm
Posts: 18
Location: Belgium
Mark Arpag wrote:
This was an AWARD not a category. It was for the Bonsai that the judges felt best represented Classical Bonsai. There is always going to be differences in taste which is a good thing and is no surprise to me. What is disturbing is the depth of misunderstanding. Did you actually read Peter Warrens article? I heard someone state that they would like to hear what the judges said about the tree but it would not change their minds.
Mr. Morimae said that this was an ego-less tree, now that is refreshing!


I did read Peter's article, in fact 2 times! It's all well said, beautifly, no doubt about that, but seeing the tree again, I have a feeling that the same thing could have been said about many other trees.
I realy would like to understand the beauty and value of this tree, the way Peter see it, but...I just can't.
I would like someone can explain and analyze this tree the way Francois Jeker does it in Bonsai Focus, maybe than, I would be able to understand it better.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Classical Bonsai Award at 1st National Bonsai Exhibition
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:47 pm
Posts: 18
Location: Belgium
Mark Arpag wrote:
I saw Bill Valavanis's work at Ginkgo and I saw yours. There is no need to say more.

What do you want us to say about this Mark?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Classical Bonsai Award at 1st National Bonsai Exhibition
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:04 pm
Posts: 244
Location: South San Francisco, CA
Many thanks to Peter Warren for his brilliant essay on Classical Bonsai. I have to admit I wasn't aware of the principles Peter discussed in his article when I was in the design process of this literati pine. My inspiration for this pine was a 15th century Chinese literati painting. This also is "classical" I think. I'm sure there is a historical and artistic connection.

I wish to offer a few words on the vain quest for perfection in our bonsai. In my humble opinion there is no "perfection" in this plane of existance. The only perfection is in death. Why? Because, it cannot be made better. It cannot be made worse.

This is not to say that we shouldn't always try our best. Of course we should, and the day may come when you get the surprise of your life, as have I with my little pine.

I also want to give thanks to all who have left comments on this thread, be they pro or con. There is much to be learned from these comments, be they pro, or be they con. I will go back and re-read them many times. Each time I hope to learn something new.

Mike


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Classical Bonsai Award at 1st National Bonsai Exhibition
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:21 pm
Posts: 86
Location: New England, USA
Mike Page wrote:
I also want to give thanks to all who have left comments on this thread


Mike, It is you who should be thanked for responding to this uninvited and undeserved barrage with dignity and generosity of spirit.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Classical Bonsai Award at 1st National Bonsai Exhibition
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:16 am
Posts: 9
Some time ago I was coming down the summit of a mountain. On the lower slopes I came accross a recently harvested plantation of trees. All the tall, thick, straight trees had been cut down and were on their way to a sawmill.
In this area of devastation remained a crooked, scragly tree with a small mishappen crown. It struck me that this tree owed its survival to the fact that it did not conform to the standard of being tall, straight and thick. It was not economically viable to spend time or effort to cut it down and cart it away.
Something else which attracted my attention was all the birds flying aimlessly around this one surviving tree. Their habitat had been destroyed.
To me the bonsai display of Mike Page reminds me of a day when I came down a mountain and observed an imperfect tree, surrounded by homeless birds in flight above a plain of desolation.
I can understand why such a composition is worthy of a prize although the tree is not perfect tree as far as standards for bonsai goes.
Am I biased because of an experience or exposure in the Past?
The same can be said of the judges, their decision making has also been influenced by past experiences or expusure to trees(bonsai)
I find it to be an honour if one tree amongst many can stop me in my tracks and make take off a borrowed hat to Mike Page and the judges.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Classical Bonsai Award at 1st National Bonsai Exhibition
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:17 am 
Offline
Editor

Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:44 am
Posts: 269
Location: Huntersville, NC USA
Colin Lewis wrote:
Mike Page wrote:
I also want to give thanks to all who have left comments on this thread


Mike, It is you who should be thanked for responding to this uninvited and undeserved barrage with dignity and generosity of spirit.



Mike,

I second that. Your grace in winning speaks well of you. The "egoless" bonsai could only be developed by a person of such character.

John


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Classical Bonsai Award at 1st National Bonsai Exhibition
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:04 pm
Posts: 244
Location: South San Francisco, CA
Once again, thanks to all for their comments and kind words.

I am posting an image to pay tribute to "Three Wise Men" who have had a profound influence on my bonsai development. I took this picture at a convention many years ago. No doubt, the last time these three were in attendance at a convention, this one being sponsored by GSBF



THREE WISE MEN

JOHN NAKA - TOSH SABUROMARU - YUJI YOSHIMURA


Attachments:
johntoshyuji.jpg
johntoshyuji.jpg [ 684.21 KiB | Viewed 6241 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 112 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Copyright 2006-2008 The Art of Bonsai Project.
All rights reserved.
Original MSSimplicity Theme created by Matt Sims © 2004
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group