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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 8:26 pm 
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Rob Kempinski wrote:
Attila Soos wrote:
Yes, it looks like a great battle, once the books are closed.

Maybe I'll do my own judging - I'd like to see how it compares to the actual resutls.

Rob, are you thinking of a judging contest with a prize for coming closest to the judges results?
Mike


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 8:33 pm 
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Location: Melbourne, Florida USA
Mike Page wrote:
Rob Kempinski wrote:
Attila Soos wrote:
Yes, it looks like a great battle, once the books are closed.

Maybe I'll do my own judging - I'd like to see how it compares to the actual resutls.

Rob, are you thinking of a judging contest with a prize for coming closest to the judges results?
Mike

No, I have a long duration business trip coming up so I need something to do in the evening - no bonsai to work on in the desert of Washington state. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 11:57 pm 
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Location: Michigan USA
RoB,
I'll email you a judging sheet...

Will


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:02 am 
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The deadline has been reached.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:21 pm 
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Location: Melbourne, Florida USA
I notice quite a few trees photographed without surface moss and without a stand. In my mind that is a big no no and should cost points.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:59 pm 
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It's late so I don't have time to go back and review the rules but in all honesty I don't remember the rules saying that trees had to have moss and stands. If that's a big issue it should have been added to the rules---if it is not. At this point you can't start making them up as we go along, especially after the submission have been made.
I humbly await immediate humiliation and chastisement.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:05 pm 
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I didn't say it was a rule - but I feel if you are going to present a tree for exhibition/competition, these items should be derigueur for showing a tree to its best effect, as much as the pot shold be clean, weeds removed, dead leaves pruned, etc.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:29 pm 
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While it is true that when showing a bonsai, all aspects of the image should be preened and polished in order to present the piece at it's best, there are some who just don't seem to care about the details, or that lack the knowledge of the necessity or the techniques used to do so.
The rules purposely avoided telling people to clean their pots, pull the weeds, or to make sure the soil surface is prepped and presentable (moss, ground cover, smaller soil particles, whatever) mainly because this should be a given. We also didn't mention removing any brown needles, discolored leafs, polishing Juniper bark, etc...for the same reason.
I am however quite sure that the community would welcome a good article on this subject. ;)
All entries were allowed in, even those with less than desirable photo quality. I trust in the judges to recognize quality presentation as well as quality photography, but no matter what their decisions may be, I stand behind them.

Will


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:47 pm 
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Location: Devon, England.
I think the matter of moss on soil could be contentious. A lot of trees are now exhibited planted in akadama.
Also, I thought it was a "Bonsai Tree" photographic competition not an exhibition.
Is this a case of misunderstanding of meaning ?.
Regards, Peter.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:36 pm 
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Am I missing something here? (Nothing new) Why are we discussing this issue about this contest at this point? Is not the contest in the hands of the judges anyway? Is it not their choice to make as to what is acceptable and what is not? I seem to be Just out to lunch one more time guys.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:12 pm 
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Vance Wood wrote:
Am I missing something here? (Nothing new) Why are we discussing this issue about this contest at this point? Is not the contest in the hands of the judges anyway? Is it not their choice to make as to what is acceptable and what is not? I seem to be Just out to lunch one more time guys.

Vance, as I understand the contest, it involves submitting a high quality photograph of a high quality bonsai. That makes it a bonsai PHOTO contest, not a bonsai DISPLAY photo contest.
From the Rules:
"The contest objective is for bonsai artists from North America and Europe to submit quality pictures of world class bonsai which will be judged and awarded points by qualified judges who reside neither in North America or Europe."
As I look through some of the photos of bonsai on a stand, too much of the frame is taken up by including the stand, which makes the tree and pot diminished in size, with consequential loss of detail. I think this would make the judges job more difficult.
Mike


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:41 pm 
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Creating a great bonsai photo is a personal judgment call, one can be as creative as he/she wants.
Using a stand is always a safe bet to get a great looking picture, but not a requirement. It's a very safe bet, though.
If you take the picture on your kitchen table, all bets are off, and you really have to be very skillful in order to come up with somehing good.
I believe that moss adds a great deal to a great bonsai image, so all things being equal, I would always favor the tree with some nice moss. All things being equal.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:07 pm 
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Gentlemen,
May I suggest discussing the artistic merits of moss here http://www.artofbonsai.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1093

Thanks,

Will


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:33 pm 
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Not meaning to beat a dead horse, but why are we arguing about this it is already a done deal, or am I wrong? So far no one has addressed that point of view. Please respond about this.
I have no problem discussing these issue as viewed from the perspective of next years contest but this one is done as far as our part is concerned?


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:31 pm 
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Mike Page wrote:
That makes it a bonsai PHOTO contest, not a bonsai DISPLAY photo contest.
....
As I look through some of the photos of bonsai on a stand, too much of the frame is taken up by including the stand, which makes the tree and pot diminished in size, with consequential loss of detail. I think this would make the judges job more difficult.
Mike

Mike, its because this is "bonsai photo" contest that the photo of the bonsai should be as strong as possible. When taking a photo of a bonsai one IMHO should strive to do more than show a picture of a tree. The photo of the tree should aim to elicit some emotive response, just like a viewing a real tree might. Hence the tree needs to be in context of some greater whole. The purpose of moss is to relate the tree to a natural scene. A tree in pure bonsai soil, such as akadama, doesn't accomplish this. It looks unfinished and artificial. The purpose of the stand is to elevate the bonsai and pot to more than a tree in a pot - but to a work of art. Therefore a photograph of the whole becomes a photograph of a work of art.
For evidence of this look at any Kokufuten album or a Taiwanese bonsai photo album - trees and stands and beautiful emotive bonsai.
Loss of detail is not a problem when photographing a tree on a stand if the photo resolution is high enough. But even so, it is the whole effect of the photograph that means something. After all a photo is only capturing a 2D representation of the 3D tree. There is by definition a tremendous loss of spatial differentiation merely by taking a photograph.
Usually I would advocate a relatively uncluttered background, but the tree in front of the water fall, in my mind evokes a tremendous feeling and by far is the best bonsai photograph submitted.
As for Vance's question why talk about this? Simple - the reason is to learn. Now that we have a sample of what various North American and European bonsai artists think are world class photographs of bonsai trees, we don't need the judges to to tell us what is good or what we like. Discussing it can be very enlightening. Maybe next time, the quality of the photographs will improve dramatically.


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