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Bonsai and the Ancient Art of Rhetoric
http://www.artofbonsai.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=115
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Author:  Attila Soos [ Sun Apr 03, 2005 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Reiner Goebel wrote:
I am much impressed by all the learned talk. However, the learned talk counts for nothing if it isn't backed up by 'learned' accomplishments. For me, at least, the bonsai done counts for more than the bonsai talked.


I completely agree Reiner, and I hope that everybody here appreciates the actual bonsai much more than bonsai talk.

Hovever, I see nothing wrong with talking about bonsai and its relations with the other artforms. Talking about bonsai can be very stimulating.
But, as you imply, it is worthless if not followed up by actual doing.
I have to disagree that bonsai is mainly about pruning and wiring. Anybody can learn how to prune and wire, but not anybody can create a great bonsai. By the same token, just because one can talk about arts, that doesn't guarantee that one can create a great bonsai either. Pure talk can be just as bad and impotent as pure, mindless technique.

Pruning and wiring are the means to achieve an objective. But first, you must have an objective, which has little to do with the means other than to observe the limitations and challenges that those means can impose.

Anyway, its great to hear voices like yours , challenging what we are writing here. And your experience can add a lot to what we are doing. Having a diversity of opposing opinions keeps everything in a better perspective.

Best regards,
Attila

Author:  Walter Pall [ Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:42 am ]
Post subject: 

'Bonsai is about pruning and wiring, and maybe the odd other thing.'

Reiner,
painting is about mixing paint and putting it onto a canvass and maybe the odd other thing. Said the man from the backwoods. He does not know the difference between Impressionsim and Expressionsim, he does not know anything about the history of painting, he thinks abstract painting is about throwing paint at a canvass and declare it art. He thinks monkeys can do that.

What do we think of that bloke? Isn't he this ridiculous ignorant who has no clue what art is and speaks in a derogative way about it?

What is the probability of his 'artwork' being of acceptable quality?
Oh he does it only for himself, only for fun! Fine, but why play the butcher in a vegetarian convention, why the atheist in the Vatican?
Walter

Author:  Hector Johnson [ Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:24 am ]
Post subject: 

I'm sure there is a deeper level of expression to be had, in almost all methods of artism, than is recognised or enjoyed by the masses.

Regarding bonsai as nothing more than a specialised form of horticulture is intellectual dishonesty... if you understand it to be an art. If you are truly so benighted as to believe it simple horticulture then I feel no compunction to disabuse you. You've already made your determination.

It had not occurred to me to regard bonsai in terms of rhetoric, but it makes sense. Interesting that there is a parallel to be drawn between Greek and Japanese Philosophy. The only parallel I've ever drawn with Eastern Mysticism/Zen Philosophy is the one to be found with Quantum Mechanics.

Well done, Attila, for pointing out the link. I'm glad there is a place to discuss such things, as they are likely to draw substantial criticism in other discussion fora.

Author:  Richard Patefield [ Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:26 am ]
Post subject: 

.

Author:  Walter Pall [ Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:23 am ]
Post subject: 

Very interesting statements Richard. Yes, that's definitely so.
Walter

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