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The Problem With Bonsai Forums
http://www.artofbonsai.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=3088
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Author:  Richard Moquin [ Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Problem With Bonsai Forums

Quote:
In reading the other responses to this post I was surprised that so many seemed to be on the defensive. Perhaps they feel as if they have been accused. That is a shame.
As for the idea that the post is too long or "wordy" for most to read, well, that may be true. I read the whole article and found it very useful and encouraging on many levels.

Understanding the origin of the article will lead the responder in the original direction mentioned in certain replies without personal attack or intended prejudice.

The article could have been reduced by at least half. There is a lot of repetition and I stand by my original response as to the merit of such an article posted here: which is supposed to be a "classy" forum. If there is a debate to be had wrt to forum content then it should have taken place on the forums, not camouflaged on this site. This is my humble opinion, it is made without prejudice nor reservation.

As Mike mentioned it might have been better suited in the editorial section of someone's blog.

Author:  Vance Wood [ Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Problem With Bonsai Forums

Mike Smith wrote:
When contributing to discussions, there is a duty on us all to treat each other with respect especially during the times of inevitable disagreement. This does not mean that there cannot be blunt, honest, open discussions but one must accept that on occasions there might be strong disagreement that bruises ones feelings. It is after all a discussion forum otherwise it would be a Blog, Twitter or merely a library.
Good posting begins with good manners; good moderation begins with integrity.


This really says it all, and in spite of what some might believe, the recent thread at Bonsainut proved that people can discuss a volatile subject covering a host of subjects without resorting to inflammatory, accusatory and out and out nasty diatribe; if they choose to. I firmly believe that nastiness is a choice.

Author:  steve kallio [ Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Problem With Bonsai Forums

Vance Wood wrote:
I firmly believe that nastiness is a choice.


Actually it's more of a highly contagious disease. Appearantly few are immune.

Author:  Vance Wood [ Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Problem With Bonsai Forums

steve kallio wrote:
Vance Wood wrote:
I firmly believe that nastiness is a choice.


Actually it's more of a highly contagious disease. Appearantly few are immune.


I would have agreed with you up until recently when a thread dealing with religion and politics on Bnutt, the two deadly subjects, went on and on, page after page, without the kind of personal attacks we are all familiar with. This tells me one thing; if people want to they can control themselves, therefore, they have a choice and not an affliction.

Author:  steve kallio [ Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Problem With Bonsai Forums

I was there Vance. Did you notice though that nobody really started in on anything? If someone had really dug their heels in and let fly then it would have spread like wildfire. That's why I say it's contagious. For whatever reason people can't let things go on the internet. Hell, the superthrive thread over there is still going.

Author:  Roger Kulp [ Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Problem With Bonsai Forums

Hi Will,

I couldn't agree with you more about bonsai forums playing to the beginner.This was why I got bored with Bonsai Talk,and did did not stick around or its demise. Frankly I don't care if it ever comes back.

I must add my voice to those who has been reading this board,and the articles here as a lurker,because I do not believe what I have to say is interesting,erudite ,and philosophical as what others like yourself have said here.As Wayne and Garth put it,I don't think I'm worthy of posting here.It does make for some pretty interesting reading though.The same can be said of Knowledge of Bonsai. Some of us are not as good at language and communication,as we are at designing and growing good bonsai.

Also it might be that there are too many bonsai forums out there,perhaps it might be a good idea to consolodate a few,like say Art of Bonsai,and Knowledge of Bonsai,or IBC,and Bonsai Nut.

Or declare that certain forums are for those of a certain level of mastery.If Bonsai Talk comes back it would be for the beginner,with a designated expert to answer questions.IBC and/or Bonsai Nut for the intermediate bonsaist,and KoB/AoB for the advanced people.

Merging two or more would save on hosting bills and other costs.

Just a thought.

Author:  Rob MacGregor [ Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Problem With Bonsai Forums

My response was an attempt to voice my opinion and my personal feelings and beliefs. Nothing more. I did not intend in any way to post a veiled attack of any kind.
I apologize if I offended any one. Thank you.

Author:  Will Heath [ Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Problem With Bonsai Forums

Rob,

I see no reason for you to apologize at all.




Will

Author:  Mike Smith [ Fri May 01, 2009 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Problem With Bonsai Forums

From previous posts it seems there are some unresolved issues arising within another forum. Is it possible that the article is a response to these?

At my time of life, hidden agendas and personal feuds are not my cup of tea really.

I wonder, does all this hanging around waiting for things to grow make us impatient and intolerant of others? Or do we just have to accept that we are just a bunch of grumpy old men?

Author:  Will Heath [ Fri May 01, 2009 9:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Problem With Bonsai Forums

Mike Smith wrote:
From previous posts it seems there are some unresolved issues arising within another forum. Is it possible that the article is a response to these?


Although that would be a nicely wrapped package, it is not quite the truth. The article is a response to what is happening on all forums, not just one, hence the coverage of all the major players.


Will

Author:  steve kallio [ Tue May 12, 2009 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Problem With Bonsai Forums

I gave this some time to sink in and reflected on it for a while. I'm wondering where I would fit in to the author's scheme of things. I'm a moderator of a forum, give advice, and state my opinions on things. i never use my "power" to make myself a supreme lord of the board or anything just try to help people. I don't recall a catagory for someone like that in here (I'm not alone, I've seen many, many moderators who just donate their time to keep things running smoothly). I also wonder where the author places himself in his hiearchy. I've been around him enough to know his habits and just curious as to where he thinks he stands in this world.

Author:  Will Heath [ Tue May 12, 2009 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Problem With Bonsai Forums

Where you stand is something you need to decide, as to me, I made no claims of innocence or of guilt, I, like all others, have room for improvement. However, the subject matter is not me.

Will

Author:  Chris Johnston [ Wed May 13, 2009 1:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Problem With Bonsai Forums

Will Heath wrote:
Where you stand is something you need to decide, as to me, I made no claims of innocence or of guilt, I, like all others, have room for improvement. However, the subject matter is not me.

Will


Can one ever really divorce the writer of editorial material from the message itself, though? While ad hominem attacks seek to negate an opponent's views based solely on a personal (usually unrelated) point, agreeing with the author's point but calling attention to possible hypocrisy is a completely different animal.

Chris

Author:  Rob MacGregor [ Wed May 13, 2009 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Problem With Bonsai Forums

Are we still discussing bonsai forums and the pro's and con's therein ?

Author:  Chris Johnston [ Wed May 13, 2009 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Problem With Bonsai Forums

Rob MacGregor wrote:
Are we still discussing bonsai forums and the pro's and con's therein ?


I have my doubts that we ever were.

Chris

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