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artofbonsai.org :: View topic - When does Art become Art?
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When does Art become Art?
http://www.artofbonsai.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=751
Page 1 of 1

Author:  Will Heath [ Sat Sep 02, 2006 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  When does Art become Art?

Walter made a few interesting observations and posed a couple of very good questions here (http://artofbonsai.org/forum/viewtopic. ... 0&start=30) recently that led me to think about bonsai becoming an art form and how this would need to be accomplished.
Thinking about this led me to consider "found art" objects which are found, like viewing stones or discarded objects that became art only after they were displayed as such. Researching this idea led me to the following conclusion.
Art is essentially form and to study this form allows us to glimpse the artist's mind. However, what we perceive is based on our own preconceptions, prejudices, and are subject to the vagaries of the means of presentation, contextualizing and environment. This is how Art becomes Art.
If we think about Warhol's Campbell Soup cans or Duchamp's Bike Wheel on a stool, both which consist of what could be defined as found objects, the question arises as to what made them Art?
What made them art was their insertion into a fine art environment. The items that make up the two works mentioned above would not have caught a second glance from us during a visit to a dump, none of us would have stopped and said, "wow, look at the art" but once put into a fine art environment they were accepted as art, but why?
Part of the reason is the location within a controlled environment that articulates difference as well as confirming the intrinsic worth of the objects that are being displayed. Another reason is that the public is content to see the art environment confirmed and not questioned. The objects are also displayed in such a manner that makes it both intelligent and meaningful.
So how do we raise bonsai to the level of fine art then?
The answer is really quite simple, by treating it as such, by displaying it as such, and of course by presenting it as such.

Author:  Will Heath [ Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:18 pm ]
Post subject: 


Author:  Chris Johnston [ Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When does Art become Art?



Attachments:
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Author:  Sakari Matikka [ Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When does Art become Art?


Author:  Chris Johnston [ Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:07 am ]
Post subject: 

Sakari,
Thank you for your reply. I understand your point. However, you could not have missed my point completely. I am not relying on an expert to tell me something is art. I am agreeing with his cogent and concise definition of what art is. This allows me to look at something, make a value judgment based on what I know to be reality, and decide whether it rises to the level of art.
You see, I would be ashamed to say, "I don't know what art is, but I know it when I see it." I would also be ashamed to say, "I don't know what art is, but so-and-so says it is art, so it must be."
The subjective definition of art that holds sway in the art world today, and that this forum is racing toward, brooks no value judgement based on objective criteria. A completely empty room is said to be art. I find that to be nonsense.
An object or work does not become art because an expert says it is. It does not become art because it is placed in an artistic setting.
I think, with many others, that some human skill must be employed, and that ideas and emotions must be presented for something to be defined as art. Compositionally satisfying? There is certainly room for personal taste!
I would refer you to the full article,

Author:  Larry Harris [ Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:03 pm ]
Post subject: 

I'm afraid I will never understand what art is. I will always rely on some so called expert to tell me what it is and then I will be skeptical.
I will never understand how a red spot on an airplane wing can be a logo and that same red spot painted on canvas and framed can be considered art or how the the elegant beauty of an automobile isn't considered art because it was conceived by a professional design team, yet, the giant mural design by a Master but executed by a team of apprentices learning their skills is art. Why is the Madonna painted on black velvet considered tacky yet the same picture painted by the same artist on a black canvas is consider art?
To me art will always have only two definitions:
Art is in the heart of the artist and art, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

Author:  Sakari Matikka [ Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:04 pm ]
Post subject: 

Chis,
You're right, I didn't miss the point, but rather wanted to ask, in my own way, wether you could stand behind your words or were the words just something you've heard or read and kept as your own. Thank you for your reply, it clearly tells me the words of Kenneth M. Lansing are just a compact way of putting some of your thoughts into one sentence. But it only speaks of visual art.
I'll take your thought of the empty room as an example of my way of digging deeper into this question of "when does art become art".
Assuming the empty room is an ordinary sized, painted with one color only, and assuming others aswell visualise the empty room white, visually it is not too interesting.
Next step. Step into it and listen. The sound in an empty room is different than in my living room. While you're listening to the humming of the air vent, look at the walls, there are always flaws which make shadows, patterns, etc. and while you move around, you see more and more of them, and.. you didn't stop listening did you? Your footsteps in the empty room are starting to fill the space more and more as they echo around. Every now and then a reflection of the sun from a passing by car sets a flash of light to the wall. So the empty room isn't as empty as it seemed?
But would that be called art of just plain lunacy, I am in no position of saying yes or no?
I'll try to keep my thoughts simple and plain.
It seems to me the definition of art, based on what I've seen and heard is more of a definition of what it should't be.
Art should not be too simple, or people will say: I could've done that!
Art should not be too complicated, or people will say: I don't get it?
In both cases people leave the exhibition with only one thought in their minds:
That was not even art.
This leads into a logical conclution:
Art, from the crowd's point of view, should be something understandable but difficult enough for one to create.
I promise to make an abstract of my thoughts here one day, but I'll have to make one for myself first.
Regards,
Sakari

Author:  Mike Page [ Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When does Art become Art?

Quote without comment:

"No great artist sees things as they really are
If he did he would cease to be an artist." Oscar Wilde

Author:  Roger Kulp [ Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When does Art become Art?


Author:  Jonathan Heckbert [ Sat May 30, 2009 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When does Art become Art?


Author:  Mike Page [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When does Art become Art?

ART IS THAT WHICH COMES FROM THE SOUL AND IS APPLIED TO THE ORDINARY WE SEE ALL ABOUT US.

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